Asharq Al-Awsat talks to Pakistani media figure Talat Hussain

Talat Hussain was a key figure in Pakistan’s media and political circles even before media revolution, beginning in 2002, which made him a household name in Pakistani society. Prior to this he served as editor of The News International, the largest circulating English language daily newspaper in Pakistan. Whilst embarking on a career as a leading anchorperson on a private news channel, Talat Hussain continued to serve as the Pakistan Correspondent for the New York Times.

Now in his mid-40s, Hussain has become a leading news anchor, hosting a television talk show on DawnNews TV. He belongs to a tradition of Pakistani journalism which strictly believes in maintaining complete impartiality in the political games that are continuously being played among rival political groups in Pakistani society. However, in 2007, Talat Hussain actively opposed the military government of General Musharraf, and it was at this time when his popularity reached its zenith. Asharq al Awsat discussed a wide range of issues with Talat Hussain, primarily relating to the Pakistani media scene and its perception, at his residence in Islamabad.

The following is the text from the interview.

[Asharq al-Awsat] How does it feel to be so famous and so influential?

[Hussain] As a journalist frankly it is an impediment, because we are not supposed to be news ourselves, we are supposed to be news providers. But the nature of the medium has changed. Therefore being recognized is not always such a good idea. I basically come from print media and try to maintain the basic intrinsic value of print media. One basic principle was that the journalist should not be heard or seen, but should be read. But it is the exactly the opposite now so I think there is a paradigm problem.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Many in the Pakistani media think that they played a major role in bringing down the government of General Musharraf, and in the same vein they have continued a campaign against the current government of the Pakistan Peoples Party. In this context, could we describe the Pakistani media as responsible media?

[Hussain] General principles state that you need to be neutral, and you need to be objective about facts. Anyone who takes a strong stance about something is not particularly well placed to be neutral about the facts and information. When General Musharraf’s time came the journalists had to move away from this classic model of neutrality, in order to become part of a very important moment in Pakistan’s constitutional history. The people in Pakistan forced the dictator to leave through constitutional means, through agitation, which the constitution grants as a fundamental right. Since then, the media’s performance has been mixed. I would be the last one to generalize the media’s role; there are different categories within the media. There are large groups which have taken editorial positions, and journalists who have taken editorial positions. But it will not hold for all the journalists. There are campaign television channels and there are campaign newspapers. But then there are neutral newspapers and neutral channels. Within channels there are campaign programs and there are neutral programs. For instance Jang, Geo and The News group has adopted an explicit position, it is anti-government and anti-President Zardari. Their editorial line is clearly directed against the government. Other than that you will not find campaign journalism to be the dominant theme in the media. There are TV channels which are very sympathetic to the government.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Can you tell us something about your best journalistic story so far?

[Hussain] I don’t think I have done any earth shattering stories. I have done assignments which, to me personally and professionally, were very rewarding, which opened new vistas of learning. My frequent visits to Pakistani tribal areas and the stories I have done there were very well appreciated in Pakistan. I continue to focus on that area. These stories have been hugely educational for me as well. My programs outside Pakistan are also very important because they give me a new perspective. The chance incident of me being on the freedom flotilla heading for Gaza (which was intercepted by the Israeli army, with Talat Hussain being arrested by the Israeli army along with other peace activists), was a big story in Pakistan, and worldwide as well. Again it was just a coincidence that I was there; there were 600 other people on that flotilla. But it was an important story to cover. I wouldn’t say that I’ve done some Bob Woodward quality journalism, but I think all of us have contributed a bit to the field.

[Asharq al-Awsat] How do you perceive the coverage of Osama Bin Laden’s story in the Pakistani media? Over the last two months the Pakistani media has been reporting that Osama Bin Laden was killed in the US operation in Abottabad, and yet some Pakistani people do not believe that Bin Laden is dead. Talk to people on the street and they will say it is all lies. Does this indicate lack of credibility for the Pakistani media?

[Hussain] I think here you are talking about the limits of the media’s power to convince people of whatever it says. The Americans say he was killed and the story was corroborated by official versions available to us from the President of Pakistan, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, the Chief of Staff of the Pakistani Army, and the Director General of the ISI. Everybody confirmed that he had been killed, and the media has been saying the same thing. If the public doesn’t believe that, then this tells you that sometimes it is difficult to fly against the public perception. For the public perception there are unanswered questions. Why have the Americans not released the pictures of Osama Bin Laden’s dead body? Why did they dump his body into the Arabian Sea? Who was the last witness to his murder? I think there are unanswered question where information is completely absent. In the absence of this information, the public cannot believe the official version. This kind of thing happens. You could find people in Germany and France who claim that 9/11 was engineered by the Americans themselves.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Yet we do have the last witnesses to his killing. Osama Bin Laden’s wives and daughters have been interrogated by the ISI, and reports about this interrogation have been published in the Pakistani media. His daughter told Pakistani interrogators that she saw the Americans killing her father at point blank range? And still people don’t believe, why?

[Hussain] I think the mythology surrounding Osama Bin Laden was so big in Pakistan and elsewhere in the world that people could not believe that he was killed, isolated in a remote house, and offered zero resistance. The basic problem is that people are not ready to believe that a person who allegedly turned the globe upside down could be caught like this. How he was portrayed, I mean his large than life image, and how he was caught, the contrast is too sharp. People can’t believe this. There have been other incidents in the recent past where people have been in a state of disbelief. When the Pakistani Army headquarters was attacked, people could not believe it. They were saying that perhaps the terrorists didn’t even enter inside the headquarters. You see when the myth is larger than life; it takes a very long time for people to rid themselves of the myth.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Have you ever tried to probe stories relating to al-Qaida?

[Hussain] I keep a very close eye on how Al-Qaida stories are covered, but this is not a story that I do. Primarily because my focus is too much on what’s happening inside Pakistan. When you are focused on what’s happening inside Pakistan, Al-Qaida becomes a secondary issue. The law and order situation, groups which are banned, what’s happening in tribal areas; it’s a large category to cover. I also cover stories in Afghanistan, with reference to Pakistan. For me, Afghanistan is not a story unless it is considered with reference to Pakistan. Therefore my focus is primarily inside Pakistan.

[Asharq al-Awsat] The Pakistani media is seemingly highly anti-American? What are reasons for that? For instance, consider how the media reacted to release of Raymond Davis?

[Hussain] I am not too sure whether that is true. Anti-Americanism is defined so broadly these days than any form of protest is seen to be directed against America. For instance, the case of Raymond Davis (US diplomat who killed two Pakistani citizens in Lahore and was later released from police custody under American pressure) is such that there are bound to be protests in cases of similar nature. See the example of Italy, where the Italian court recently sent the CIA station chief to Jail. So in any state which discovers the CIA operating in its backyard, there are bound to be protests of this nature. In the case of Osama Bin Laden, any country which discovers that a foreign country has invaded its territory to take out what they say is a legitimate target, there are bound to be protest in such situations. Being pro-Pakistani and having nationalistic sentiments is unfortunately being misinterpreted as being anti-American. It is so broadly defined that any form of protest and any desire to be independent is seen as anti-American. In the case of Pakistan, the American footprint is so large and Americans seem arrogant. Anyway, anti-Americanism is not a characteristic purely of Pakistan. For instance Turkey would be considered a very anti-American country in terms of numbers. Even in European countries there are anti-American feelings. In Germany it has risen to 28 percent. To the contrary I would say, in more ways than one, the Pakistani media is a very pro-American media. In which country would you find the Voice of America buying air time and other American state department driven programs on public media? In which country would you find the American embassy inviting journalists and striking deals with them directly?

[Asharq al-Awsat] There are many people who say that the public opinion and media in Pakistan and United States are the biggest hurdles in the way of reviving close relations between Islamabad and Washington?

[Hussain] If the people of the two countries don’t want a close relationship then that answers the question. You can’t have close relations if the people do not want this. That’s the basic democratic principle. If people don’t want it you should not have close relations, that’s point number one. Number two is who shapes the public opinion? Is the American media pro-Pakistan or Anti-Pakistan? Considering the kind of stories the New York Times does on Pakistan, and the kind of stories which Washington Post does, you and I would be quite ashamed publish such stories which have no sources, and which are never substantiated. The media revolution in Pakistan came in around 2002; the GEO was launched. A huge wave of electronic media began. Anti-American sentiments in Pakistan date back decades ago. When was the American embassy burnt here in Pakistan? There was no private sector media at that time. There was no anchor instigating the public to go out and burn the American embassy. American flags have a very long history of being burned in Pakistani streets, when there was no private media. Who was the most anti-American politician in Pakistani history? Zulifikar Ali Bhutto, father of Benazir Bhutto. He was not exactly a child of the media. Americans seriously need to realize how they conduct themselves, in order to understand the real sources of anti-Americanism.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Have you fulfilled your dreams professionally?

[Hussain] I never had dreams of doing this and that. You and I belong to a generation of journalists who started in journalism because they thought it was exciting. It gives you a sense of importance and relevance because you see your name appear in writing. All that mattered a lot. We were not exactly ambitious people who wanted to change the world. I have stayed with that trajectory of thought for a long time. So, do I have a dream? No I don’t have a dream. But my desire is to carry on as a journalist who knows the distinction between fact and opinion, and fact and fiction. My desire is to see a television channel that is owned and run by journalists, and newspapers which allow the youth of Pakistan to express themselves. I think media has become very monopolistic and over-commercialized. So the media minus those two evils would be what you could describe as my dream.

[Asharq al-Awsat] Is there an unwritten story in your journalistic career? A story which you want to write, but have not been able to write so far?

[Hussain] There is a big unwritten story; how decisions are made in Pakistan. How decisions have been made in Pakistan in the last two or three years, how deals were struck with the Americans and other countries, how military operations were planned. On all that I have fairly deep inside information available. But it is more of a topic for a book than a news story. From a close range I have watched decision makers conduct themselves at this critical juncture in Pakistan’s history. I have good information available on this, and it is one story I would like to write, but more in the form of a book.